Loose lips sink ships
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Topic: Loose lips sink ships
Posted By: Rontini599
Subject: Loose lips sink ships
Date Posted: 31 May 2017 at 7:57pm
Some 'Silent Service' vets cringe at Trump's sub disclosure
By: https://www.navytimes.com/author/jennifer-mcdermott-the-associated-press" rel="nofollow - Jennifer McDermott, The Associated Press,
May 25, 2017
(Photo Credit: MC2 Jermaine Ralliford/Navy)
PROVIDENCE, R.I. — Some veterans of the Navy's "Silent Service" are
cringing at news that President Donald Trump disclosed the whereabouts
of two submarines that are part of an undersea force that prides itself
on stealth.
While Trump did not give up the subs' precise location, his telling the
president of the Philippines of the submarines' presence in a private
conversation startled many in a community that has long abided by the
adage "Loose lips sink ships."
"The only thing that saves our lives is people not knowing where we
are," said T. Michael Bircumshaw, a retired Navy master chief and former
commander of the United States Submarine Veterans, Inc. He said telling
anyone anything about where U.S. submarines are is "pure,
unadulterated, criminal stupidity."
http://www.militarytimes.com/articles/trump-calls-kim-jong-un-a-madman-discusses-us-sub-movements-in-call-with-philippines-leader" rel="nofollow -
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- Military Times
- Trump called Kim Jong Un a 'madman,' discussed US sub movement in conversation with Duterte
Security experts say such disclosures are rare. One breach that's
bitterly remembered in the submarine force came in 1943 when Kentucky
Congressman Andrew J. May revealed that submarines were escaping
Japanese attacks because the charges they were dropping were exploding
at too shallow of a depth, Bircumshaw noted. Japanese forces adjusted
and U.S. submarines were hit.
Trump's reference to the submarines was made during an April 29 call
that touched on the North Korean threat. Trump revealed the U.S. had two
nuclear submarines in the region and did not want to use them,
according to a leaked transcript of the conversation with Rodrigo
Duterte.
"I didn't see any foul there, and those people making it a foul are a
bit ridiculous," said retired Vice Adm. Al Konetzni. "We have submarines
operating, thank goodness, we have them operating in all of the trouble
spots of the world."
Thomas Fedyszyn, a professor of national security affairs at the U.S.
Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island, could not recall a U.S.
president ever making such a disclosure.
"It was an extremely rare, unlikely and uncommon statement by a senior political leader," he said.
The Navy generally does not describe where submarines are patrolling
until after they've returned home or they're calling on a port. It
announced a visit by the USS Michigan to Busan, South Korea, days before
Trump's call with Duterte.
Deen Brown, who conducted submarine war patrols for the Navy during
World War II, said he was not concerned about the disclosure, and the
subs may not even be where Trump said they were.
"But even if they are there, they're not going to be there very long," said Brown, 94, of Oakdale, Connecticut.
Bud Atkins, who served on 10 submarines and retired as a command master
chief, was incredulous. He said Trump should "keep his mouth shut, to
put it bluntly."
"I couldn't believe it. I could not believe it," said Atkins, also of Oakdale.
American submarines carrying nuclear warheads patrol the world's oceans
to deter a nuclear attack. Their locations are kept secret to ensure
the U.S. can strike back if attacked. Attack submarines also need to
stay hidden for their missions, from destroying enemy ships to sending
special operations forces ashore and collecting intelligence.
While opinions varied about the significance of Trump's disclosure, the
submariners all spoke of stealth as a principle advantage.
"We spend all those years training to keep quiet under the water. We
build machines to do specifically that," said submarine veteran Ray
Hamilton, of New London, Connecticut. "And we stay hidden, until the
president says, 'Hey we're hiding them over there!"
James H. Patton Jr., a retired Navy captain, said it should come as no
surprise that there are submarines operating in that part of the world,
and Trump didn't give a precise location or ship names. But he wondered
whether it was an intentional statement vetted by his advisers, perhaps
to reassure allies, or something spontaneous.
"If he was blurting out information he knew, that's worrisome," said
Patton. "If it was a consciously thought out statement, I have no
issue."
------------- My heroes wear dog tags, not shoulder pads |
Replies:
Posted By: GaryKC
Date Posted: 31 May 2017 at 10:20pm
 ------------- SS484 SS426 SSBN618 Joined this BBS: May 25 2007 Website http://www.usstusk.com" rel="nofollow - USS Tusk SS 426 |
Posted By: Hagar
Date Posted: 31 May 2017 at 11:02pm
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Like nobody looks at Fakebook. More B/S non-news. Duh. https://www.facebook.com/submarinegroup7 ------------- Tullibee, Miami, Holland, Frank Cable, Florida Gold, San Francisco. |
Posted By: Sewer Pipe Snipe
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 7:30am
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Who, in world politics, doesn't know we have missile submarines deployed all over the globe. Some within range of most hostile targets. If a Country is threatening to nuke us, it would be stupid not to have a retaliatory force within range to provide that retaliation in a swift and sure manner. Plus, it is useless as a deterrent if they don't know that force is there. Rumor was when Idi Amin was meeting with a certain member of the administration, a sub was there. Plus that sub snorkeled to make sure they knew it was there. Of course that was only rumor. A threat is only effective when it is seen and realized. Sort of like you aren't afraid of the 140 pound pipsqueak standing in front of you until you notice the sawed-off shotgun he has pointed at you under his coat. ------------- Walt, Had I done everything right throughout my life, the World wouldn't have noticed. |
Posted By: Dr. Stan
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 3:08pm
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This is just another crock of crap. IOW, a big fat nothing burger. As is this:
As a Life member of USSVI for the last 20 years Chief Bircumshaw does not speak for me in his evaluation of the actions of our POTUS. Period!! Perhaps, certain members of the Silent Service should remain silent. ------------- It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues.~Abe Lincoln SS-393, SSBN-610(B), SSBN-624(G), SSN-591 USSVI Life Member; Holland Club; Plank Owner, Smoky Mtn. Base |
. . . T. Michael Bircumshaw, a retired Navy master chief and former commander of the United States Submarine Veterans, Inc. He said telling anyone anything about where U.S. submarines are is "pure, unadulterated, criminal stupidity."Posted By: 610ET
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 4:38pm
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Posted By: Pat-H
Date Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 6:50pm
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There is no 'story' here. Michigan was already reported in Busan and our national rivals already know that our battle groups travel with 1 or 2 subs to 'clear the road.' Sheesh! ------------- Patrick Householder Issaquah WA USS Chopper Q-1962 |
Posted By: smiley
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2017 at 9:50am
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Hi Shipmates long time no see. I do stop by from time to time and read the posts. However this issue of Security leaks when everyone in the world knows that we have boats on deployment all over the world always is political BS. I ask where were these pundits of security when Obama, Uncle Joe and HRC outed the Special Ops Group by "name" that waxed OBL? The repercussions of such idiocy and complete disregard to these men and their families security is still present today. Security breach by Trump's mouth? Please. The political swing on this is so transparent. I hope all are doing well Smiley
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Posted By: 610ET
Date Posted: 24 Jun 2017 at 12:03pm
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Someone should tell the drama queens that Michigan is no longer a SSBN "patroling the world's oceans to deter a nuclear attack". |