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Loose lips sink ships

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Rontini599 View Drop Down
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    Posted: 31 May 2017 at 7:57pm

Some 'Silent Service' vets cringe at Trump's sub disclosure

By: Jennifer McDermott, The Associated Press, May 25, 2017 (Photo Credit: MC2 Jermaine Ralliford/Navy)
PROVIDENCE, R.I. — Some veterans of the Navy's "Silent Service" are cringing at news that President Donald Trump disclosed the whereabouts of two submarines that are part of an undersea force that prides itself on stealth.

While Trump did not give up the subs' precise location, his telling the president of the Philippines of the submarines' presence in a private conversation startled many in a community that has long abided by the adage "Loose lips sink ships."

"The only thing that saves our lives is people not knowing where we are," said T. Michael Bircumshaw, a retired Navy master chief and former commander of the United States Submarine Veterans, Inc. He said telling anyone anything about where U.S. submarines are is "pure, unadulterated, criminal stupidity."


Security experts say such disclosures are rare. One breach that's bitterly remembered in the submarine force came in 1943 when Kentucky Congressman Andrew J. May revealed that submarines were escaping Japanese attacks because the charges they were dropping were exploding at too shallow of a depth, Bircumshaw noted. Japanese forces adjusted and U.S. submarines were hit.

Trump's reference to the submarines was made during an April 29 call that touched on the North Korean threat. Trump revealed the U.S. had two nuclear submarines in the region and did not want to use them, according to a leaked transcript of the conversation with Rodrigo Duterte.

"I didn't see any foul there, and those people making it a foul are a bit ridiculous," said retired Vice Adm. Al Konetzni. "We have submarines operating, thank goodness, we have them operating in all of the trouble spots of the world."

Thomas Fedyszyn, a professor of national security affairs at the U.S. Naval War College in Newport, Rhode Island, could not recall a U.S. president ever making such a disclosure.

"It was an extremely rare, unlikely and uncommon statement by a senior political leader," he said.

The Navy generally does not describe where submarines are patrolling until after they've returned home or they're calling on a port. It announced a visit by the USS Michigan to Busan, South Korea, days before Trump's call with Duterte.


This photo taken taken Feb. 16, 2017, shows Deen Brown, 94, of Oakdale, Conn. A leaked transcript of a telephone conversation between President Donald Trump and the president of the Philippines last month shows the leaders discussing the North Korean threat. Trump revealed the U.S. had two nuclear submarines in the region. Brown, who conducted submarine war patrols for the Navy during World War II, said submarine locations shouldn't be advertised, but said he wasn't concerned with what Trump said because the submarines may not even be where he said they were. Photo Credit: Jennifer McDermott/AP

Deen Brown, who conducted submarine war patrols for the Navy during World War II, said he was not concerned about the disclosure, and the subs may not even be where Trump said they were.

"But even if they are there, they're not going to be there very long," said Brown, 94, of Oakdale, Connecticut.

Bud Atkins, who served on 10 submarines and retired as a command master chief, was incredulous. He said Trump should "keep his mouth shut, to put it bluntly."

"I couldn't believe it. I could not believe it," said Atkins, also of Oakdale.

American submarines carrying nuclear warheads patrol the world's oceans to deter a nuclear attack. Their locations are kept secret to ensure the U.S. can strike back if attacked. Attack submarines also need to stay hidden for their missions, from destroying enemy ships to sending special operations forces ashore and collecting intelligence.

While opinions varied about the significance of Trump's disclosure, the submariners all spoke of stealth as a principle advantage.

"We spend all those years training to keep quiet under the water. We build machines to do specifically that," said submarine veteran Ray Hamilton, of New London, Connecticut. "And we stay hidden, until the president says, 'Hey we're hiding them over there!"

James H. Patton Jr., a retired Navy captain, said it should come as no surprise that there are submarines operating in that part of the world, and Trump didn't give a precise location or ship names. But he wondered whether it was an intentional statement vetted by his advisers, perhaps to reassure allies, or something spontaneous.

"If he was blurting out information he knew, that's worrisome," said Patton. "If it was a consciously thought out statement, I have no issue."
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote GaryKC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 10:20pm



Edited by GaryKC - 24 Jun 2017 at 3:33pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hagar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2017 at 11:02pm
  Like nobody looks at Fakebook.
More B/S non-news.
Duh.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sewer Pipe Snipe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 7:30am
Who, in world politics, doesn't know we have missile submarines deployed all over the globe. Some within range of most hostile targets. If a Country is threatening to nuke us, it would be stupid not to have a retaliatory force within range to provide that retaliation in a swift and sure manner. Plus, it is useless as a deterrent if they don't know that force is there. Rumor was when Idi Amin was meeting with a certain member of the administration, a sub was there. Plus that sub snorkeled to make sure they knew it was there. Of course that was only rumor. A threat is only effective when it is seen and realized. Sort of like you aren't afraid of the 140 pound pipsqueak standing in front of you until you notice the sawed-off shotgun he has pointed at you under his coat.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr. Stan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 3:08pm
This is just another crock of crap.  IOW, a big fat nothing burger.

As is this:

Quote . . . T. Michael Bircumshaw, a retired Navy master chief and former commander of the United States Submarine Veterans, Inc. He said telling anyone anything about where U.S. submarines are is "pure, unadulterated, criminal stupidity."

As a Life member of USSVI for the last 20 years Chief Bircumshaw does not speak for me in his evaluation of the actions of our POTUS.  Period!!

Perhaps, certain members of the Silent Service should remain silent.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 610ET Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 4:38pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pat-H Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jun 2017 at 6:50pm
There is no 'story' here.  Michigan was already reported in Busan and our national rivals already know that our battle groups travel with 1 or 2 subs to 'clear the road.'  Sheesh!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote smiley Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2017 at 9:50am
Hi Shipmates long time no see. I do stop by from time to time and read the posts. However this issue of Security leaks when everyone in the world knows that we have boats on deployment all over the world always is political BS. 
I ask where were these pundits of security when Obama, Uncle Joe and HRC outed the Special Ops Group by "name" that waxed OBL?  The repercussions of such idiocy and complete disregard to these men and their families security is still present today.
Security breach by Trump's mouth? Please. The political swing on this is so transparent.

I hope all are doing well
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 610ET Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jun 2017 at 12:03pm

Someone should tell the drama queens that Michigan is no longer a SSBN "patroling the world's oceans to deter a nuclear attack".


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