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Need Help With Question

Printed From: Rontini Submarine BBS
Category: General
Forum Name: U.S. Submarine Related
Forum Description: Submarine Related Topics
URL: http://RontiniSubmarineBBS.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4125
Printed Date: 28 Mar 2024 at 7:45am
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Topic: Need Help With Question
Posted By: SaltiDawg
Subject: Need Help With Question
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2017 at 7:58pm
Reading a book and there are some comments about the Main Steam Stops. MS-1 and MS-2.
Question: How were MS-1&2 operated in both open and shut ops?



Replies:
Posted By: Flapper
Date Posted: 20 Jul 2017 at 8:42pm
I think I remember, though it was 40+ years ago for me, but I'm not gonna say anything here. As far as I know it's still Confidential/NOFORN Cool

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ET1ss Nuke; 1962 - 1973. SSN-588, CVA-63, SSBN-629 BLUE, SSN-669 PLANKOWNER, FICPAC


Posted By: Sewer Pipe Snipe
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2017 at 9:49am
They were designed to test the ERS's endurance and tolerance to heat.

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Walt,
Had I done everything right throughout my life, the World wouldn't have noticed.


Posted By: Dantini
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2017 at 10:20am
SaltiDawg,
 
MS 1 and 2 were manually opened (after the bypass valves MS 59 nd 60 were opened to warm up the downstream steam lines and minimize water hammer).  They were shut hydraulically when the steam plant was being shutdown (either normal shutdown or during a Scram).  Sign me off on the Main Steam system.  lol


Posted By: SaltiDawg
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2017 at 11:29am
Dantini,
Perfect. Thanks.
Was there an "Auto" position on the SPCP FOR THEM?
I do not believe so, however in the UNCLASSIFIED Thresher report it says there was. If one had a scram and MS-1,2 Automaticaly shut that could really complicate the recovery.
To my recollection there was no "Auto" Switch Position.



Posted By: Sewer Pipe Snipe
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2017 at 1:21pm
Sorry I wrote 637 class the first time, as Von S was a 627 class Boat.

Wrong, pull that qual card. At least on a 627 class. Manually open is correct, the rest isn't. They were tested on startup. Opened manually, tripped to check the automatic trip and then opened again. Now just what closed them is the question. It was God awful fast though.


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Walt,
Had I done everything right throughout my life, the World wouldn't have noticed.


Posted By: Dantini
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2017 at 3:21pm
The switches for MS 1 & 2 and indicator lights were on the RPCP, not the SPCP.  The switches were right  beside the Control Switches for MCPs 1 & 2 on the upper apron portion of the RPCP. The SPCP only had indicator lights for MS 3 & 4 (Steam supply to the Main Engines and TGs), no switches.  MS 1 & 2 were closed by the Main Hydraulic system.  You would never want to open MS 1 & 2 hydraulically, especially with me in any of the machinery spaces.  The Reactor Operator actually shut 1 & 2 with his switches on a reactor scram, they did not shut automatically.  We need to recheck Sewer pipe's qual card


Posted By: SaltiDawg
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2017 at 4:06pm
Thanks, all.

Wonder if there was an Auto shut at the time of Thresher?


Posted By: SaltiDawg
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2017 at 4:26pm
Reading the Thresher report and analysis threads, seems little doubt that MS-1&2 had a AUTO position at the time of Thresher'ss loss, likely to prevent a cold water acident. At some point post-Thresher NR disabled or removed the AUTO function so as to allow a quicker recovery followin a Scram.

I can not find definitively whether was in Open or Auto at the time of her loss. I did not get to my first S5W boat until 3 years after Thresher.

Again, thanks for help. My bad about SPCP.




Posted By: Sewer Pipe Snipe
Date Posted: 21 Jul 2017 at 4:34pm
Funny those valves had some big ass springs on them, that made opening them a task indeed. Like I said 627 class.

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Walt,
Had I done everything right throughout my life, the World wouldn't have noticed.


Posted By: Dr. Stan
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2017 at 2:16pm
Qualified as RO on 610 in 1963 but I can't recall any Main Steam valve switches or indicator lights on the RPCP.  There were switches/lights for MC valves, etc., but MS valves I don't recall.  Doesn't mean they weren't there but . . .? Embarrassed



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It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues.~Abe Lincoln
SS-393, SSBN-610(B), SSBN-624(G), SSN-591
USSVI Life Member; Holland Club; Plank Owner, Smoky Mtn. Base


Posted By: Dantini
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2017 at 4:00pm
Dr. Stan let me test your memory:  As an RO on the 610 when you had a scram, didn't you first shift the MCPs from fast to slow (if they were running in fast) and then shut MS 1 & 2?  Who else besides the RO would have shut those valves?  That was before Thresher went down.  After that, MS 1 & 2 were not shut as a matter of fact depending upon the cause of the scram, and a possible rapid restart of the Reactor was commenced with an emergency high power startup rate allowed.
 
Sewer pipe - that would be the 637 not the 627 class  Smile


Posted By: Sewer Pipe Snipe
Date Posted: 22 Jul 2017 at 5:06pm
You mean I was right and only thought I was wrong? This getting old just isn't that much fun. Forgetting stuff from 45 years ago shows my mind is slipping. 

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Walt,
Had I done everything right throughout my life, the World wouldn't have noticed.


Posted By: Dr. Stan
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2017 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by Dantini Dantini wrote:

Dr. Stan let me test your memory:  As an RO on the 610 when you had a scram, didn't you first shift the MCPs from fast to slow (if they were running in fast) and then shut MS 1 & 2?  Who else besides the RO would have shut those valves?  That was before Thresher went down.  After that, MS 1 & 2 were not shut as a matter of fact depending upon the cause of the scram, and a possible rapid restart of the Reactor was commenced with an emergency high power startup rate allowed.

Well, Dan, I have not seen or even thought much about an RPCP in 49 years so my memory has faded somewhat.  Further, I was sitting at the RPCP at S1W when I heard the news about the Thresher, so when I qualified on the Edison toward the end of 1963 the procedures may have been changed.  However, the MS switches would likely not have been relocated; so, apparently, I have just forgotten about them.  However, I do remember some switches like the MCP, MCV and, in particular, the In-Hold-Out switch.   So, even though my memory is like Swiss cheese (i.e., full of holes) some traces do remain.  But, sadly, I failed your MS switch test. Ouch Embarrassed



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It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues.~Abe Lincoln
SS-393, SSBN-610(B), SSBN-624(G), SSN-591
USSVI Life Member; Holland Club; Plank Owner, Smoky Mtn. Base


Posted By: SaltiDawg
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2017 at 1:42pm
I also failed the location part.  !@#$%&
All of us have referred to the SPGP, RPCP, and EPCP.

Actually it was the SPGB, was it not?  Thumbs Up




Posted By: Dantini
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2017 at 2:34pm
No problem Dr. Stan,.  My memory is fading fast too.
 
Saltidawg; the panels are the EPCP - Electric Plant Control Panel. RPCP - Reactor Plant Control Panel, and the SPCP-  Steam Plant Control Panel.
 
You may be confusing the SPCP with SGWLCP (Squiggle) the Steam Generator Water Level Control Panel which was located in AMR #2 upper level.


Posted By: SaltiDawg
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2017 at 5:21pm
No confusion - I may well be mistaken, however.


Posted By: SaltiDawg
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2017 at 7:45pm
Did some more homework, and I can not find a single reference to SPGB anywhere.  However, on my first Nuke, the CO insisted that EOOWs had to qualify fully at all subordinate watch stations. When I had my EOOW Final Board I was not left with a bunch of oolies to look up.
Lt. Bell asked me to name the three aft-facing "panels" in Maneuvering.
I gave the stock answer, he signed me off, and told me to check on the nameplates.
I did. Had Capt. White later asked me that question I would have answered to include SPGB. (He asked me no questions, but rather told me he was proud of me and gave me a talk on responsibility.)

I'm quite sure he gave me the same talk when I qualified OOD and also in Submarines.Thumbs Up




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