SSN (711)
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Category: General
Forum Name: U.S. Submarine Related
Forum Description: Submarine Related Topics
URL: http://RontiniSubmarineBBS.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=4529
Printed Date: 19 Apr 2024 at 12:45pm Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: SSN (711)
Posted By: Runner485
Subject: SSN (711)
Date Posted: 03 Apr 2018 at 9:41am
Last night I
finished re-reading the story, Making of a Submarine Officer. The story of the
USS San Francisco (SSN 711) by Alex Fleming, who served on her for about two
years.
Knowing what
happened to her at the end of the book, I really paid attention to the detail
of how bad a shape she was in and how the crew had to fight every day against
all the material defects in 711 to get her ready for sea. All the inspectors that
came aboard at almost, so it seems, to fail her for something so small, I wouldn’t
think it would make a difference. One extreme example was, a leaking oil sight
glass. It was leaking 3 drops a minute. Being a non nuke, and an engineman, 3
drops a minute of any leaking substance was, “set the maneuvering watch”, good
to go. So, I was trying to rap my head around these, what was to me
inconsequential troubles. But I realize we are talking about apples and oranges.
Many of the problems they were experiencing was on equipment I had no idea what
it was and what it did, so much of what I thought about anything, was based on
nothing, other then, a feeling of sorrow for what the crew was going through,
whether officers or enlisted.
How the
author, Fleming had problems “Rigging for Dive” in almost every compartment he
was assigned to. How over worked all these men were trying to open a new home
port in Guam, because the Navy Brass thought it would be beneficial to the Navy.
However, they didn’t realize how bad a shape the 711 was in. How they Navy gets
screwed by the shipyards who does overhauls on our subs, to the point that they
installed a screw on 711 that was not designed for a 688 boat, which was one of
their sources of noise while she was running at sea. I missed that item in my
first reading of this book.
In spite of
all they’re problems, this is a book about the crew. How they persevered under
conditions I am very glad I was never under. And how in almost unbelievable circumstances
they persevered when they finally got a new skipper who believed they could accomplish
what the Navy expected of them.
I’m glad I
re-read this book. It gives me a better appreciation for what these fellow
submariners went through in spite of the stupidity of the brass sitting in
comfortable office’s put them through.
------------- DBF Joe SS485,CVA42 Holland Club Mid-Atlantic Base
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Replies:
Posted By: 610ET
Date Posted: 17 Apr 2018 at 3:54pm
Before they went to 711 the CO, Kevin Mooney, the off going
DOOW who hit the chicken switches, MMCS(SS) Danny Hager and a young QM, Dean (?)
all used to post here.
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Posted By: Dr. Stan
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 10:09am
I remember CDR Mooney and Senior Chief Hager, but not Dean (?). Apparently Danny Hager still comes around to visit: Danny Hager - Last Visit: 15 Apr 2018. Last post: 30 Jan 2018.
------------- It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues.~Abe Lincoln SS-393, SSBN-610(B), SSBN-624(G), SSN-591 USSVI Life Member; Holland Club; Plank Owner, Smoky Mtn. Base
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Posted By: SaltiDawg
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 11:13am
The author repeatedly made mistakes on Checking Rig for Dive, blamed everyone but himself for being Dink, while visiting back in the States got a Former Shipmate to falsify his Dive Qual Card Sigs for him, and many more issues.
I never served with an Officer, or Enlisted man, that needed to be disqualed more than this clown! (And this based on his own telling of his own misdeeds.)
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Posted By: Runner485
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 11:46am
SaltiDawg wrote:
The author repeatedly made mistakes on Checking Rig for Dive, blamed everyone but himself for being Dink, while visiting back in the States got a Former Shipmate to falsify his Dive Qual Card Sigs for him, and many more issues.
I never served with an Officer, or Enlisted man, that needed to be disqualed more than this clown! (And this based on his own telling of his own misdeeds.)
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You got that right Jerry...
------------- DBF Joe SS485,CVA42 Holland Club Mid-Atlantic Base
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Posted By: 610ET
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 1:38pm
Dr. Stan wrote:
I remember CDR Mooney and Senior Chief Hager, but not Dean (?). Apparently Danny Hager still comes around to visit: Danny Hager - Last Visit: 15 Apr 2018. Last post: 30 Jan 2018.
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Dean (?) started posting here when he was at BESS. John Carcioppolo took him under his wing and when he qualified, he wore John's dolphins.
He was pretty gung ho but as a QM got caught up in the aftermath and I believe received some NJP? Don't know what happened after that. SCPO Hager could probably fill in the blanks.
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Posted By: Dr. Stan
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 6:58pm
I still don't remember Dean, but I do recall how they blamed the Frisco's QM because their maps weren't up to date. If Dean was a QM he might have received a lot of grief because of that.
Speaking of John Carcioppolo, I haven't heard anything about him for a long time. Hope he is OK.
------------- It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues.~Abe Lincoln SS-393, SSBN-610(B), SSBN-624(G), SSN-591 USSVI Life Member; Holland Club; Plank Owner, Smoky Mtn. Base
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Posted By: SaltiDawg
Date Posted: 18 Apr 2018 at 7:49pm
Dr. Stan wrote:
I still don't remember Dean, but I do recall how they blamed the Frisco's QM because their maps weren't up to date. If Dean was a QM he might have received a lot of grief because of that.
Speaking of John Carcioppolo, I haven't heard anything about him for a long time. Hope he is OK.
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With a "grounding" of virtually any sort, pretty understandable if NAV, CO, and Quartergasket(s), not to mention OOD have some blame. "Some blame" means career ending, at least.
I'm not familiar with this grounding other than brief reference in this book - by an author that had not earned any respect as shown by his admissions.
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Posted By: 610ET
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 1:06pm
SaltiDawg wrote:
I'm not familiar with this grounding other than brief reference in this book - by an author that had not earned any respect as shown by his admissions.
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Not your average grounding.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/18/us/adrift-500-feet-under-the-sea-a-minute-was-an-eternity.html" rel="nofollow - https://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/18/us/adrift-500-feet-under-the-sea-a-minute-was-an-eternity.html
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Posted By: SaltiDawg
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 1:31pm
I first referred to the grounding as, "With a "grounding" of virtually any sort..."
But a "grounding" nevertheless!
It does sound as if what I suggested is in fact consistent with the Navy's actions after the casualty.
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Posted By: 610ET
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 1:39pm
You wrote that you were not familiar with this story so I posted the link to it.
I thought you might find it interesting.
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Posted By: SaltiDawg
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 6:07pm
Posted By: 610ET
Date Posted: 19 Apr 2018 at 7:48pm
Posted By: Runner485
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 8:33pm
610ET wrote:
You're welcome.
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I do remember Mooney and Hagar both when they posted here. And thanks for posting that news story. I remember seeing the photos of 711 when she returned and in dry dock...That was no grounding of 711. That boat crashed into a mountain at full speed. To me grounding infers bouncing off the bottom, or something similar like that.
------------- DBF Joe SS485,CVA42 Holland Club Mid-Atlantic Base
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Posted By: SaltiDawg
Date Posted: 20 Apr 2018 at 8:57pm
Posted By: Runner485
Date Posted: 21 Apr 2018 at 6:25am
Why so touchy! Just a matter of opinions, regardless of what navy official designates it.
------------- DBF Joe SS485,CVA42 Holland Club Mid-Atlantic Base
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Posted By: 610ET
Date Posted: 22 Apr 2018 at 8:49pm
Runner485 wrote:
Why so touchy! Just a matter of opinions, regardless of what navy official designates it.
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Good question.
In a "normal" grounding there isn't a death and the majority of the crew are not injured.
Pretty obvious that this was a whole different event.
Be interesting to see how the Navy classified it.
He certainly wasn't appreciative of learning about a serious submarine event that he somehow had missed.
Maybe he just likes to be "right?"
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Posted By: FTGC(SS) Lane
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 5:52am
OK Enough of this argument of what the accident was called. The Navy calls it a grounding, so it was a grounding.
"Although the grounding incident compelled me to punish
[him] and remove him from command, in my opinion it does not negate 19 years of
exemplary service," the admiral wrote. "Prior to the grounding
incident, USS San Francisco demonstrated a trend of continuing improvement and
compiled an impressive record of achievement under [Mooney's] leadership.
Moreover, the crew's post-grounding response under his direct leadership was
commendable and enabled [the sub's] recovery and safe return to port.
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http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=18257" rel="nofollow - http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=18257
COMMAND INVESTIGATION OF THE APPARENT SUBMERGED GROUNDING OF THE USS SAN FRANCISCO https://www.npr.org/documents/2005/may/uss_sanfrancisco_sub.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://www.npr.org/documents/2005/may/uss_sanfrancisco_sub.pdf
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Posted By: Runner485
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 7:16am
FTGC(SS) Lane wrote:
OK Enough of this argument of what the accident was called. The Navy calls it a grounding, so it was a grounding.
"Although the grounding incident compelled me to punish
[him] and remove him from command, in my opinion it does not negate 19 years of
exemplary service," the admiral wrote. "Prior to the grounding
incident, USS San Francisco demonstrated a trend of continuing improvement and
compiled an impressive record of achievement under [Mooney's] leadership.
Moreover, the crew's post-grounding response under his direct leadership was
commendable and enabled [the sub's] recovery and safe return to port.
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http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=18257" rel="nofollow - http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=18257
COMMAND INVESTIGATION OF THE APPARENT SUBMERGED GROUNDING OF THE USS SAN FRANCISCO https://www.npr.org/documents/2005/may/uss_sanfrancisco_sub.pdf" rel="nofollow - https://www.npr.org/documents/2005/may/uss_sanfrancisco_sub.pdf
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Mike, all of the above is navy BS in trying to mitigate the fact that this boat crashed into a mountain in which personel died, many were injured and the boat was in danger of sinking if not for the bravery of it's crew. Period; case closed.
------------- DBF Joe SS485,CVA42 Holland Club Mid-Atlantic Base
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Posted By: Dr. Stan
Date Posted: 23 Apr 2018 at 1:02pm
I stumbled across an alternative explanation of the incident. I DO NOT vouch for the validity of this point of view. This for your amusement and entertainment ONLY.
REMEMBER THAT SUMATRA QUAKE TSUNAMI CAUSED BY USS SAN FRANCISCO SUBMARINE EXPERIMENT THAT KILLED FEW HUNDRED THOUSANDS.. (Parts I, II & III)
http://defensetiger.blogspot.com/search/label/USS%20San%20Francisco" rel="nofollow - http://defensetiger.blogspot.com/search/label/USS%20San%20Francisco
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------------- It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues.~Abe Lincoln SS-393, SSBN-610(B), SSBN-624(G), SSN-591 USSVI Life Member; Holland Club; Plank Owner, Smoky Mtn. Base
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Posted By: Dan Ashley
Date Posted: 07 May 2018 at 11:16pm
Lance Dean is on my friends list, Facebook , as is Kevin Mooney and some of the crew. We exchange niceties often just to keep in touch. Billy Cramer and I root for all the Ohio sports teams. Somewhere I have the unofficial report( no blackouts) on the "Grounding" investigation.
------------- DLAshley
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Posted By: 610ET
Date Posted: 07 May 2018 at 11:28pm
Dan, good to hear your input.
What is Lance Dean doing these days?
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Posted By: Dan Ashley
Date Posted: 07 May 2018 at 11:45pm
Lance Dean: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Consulting-Forester/171861640125116" rel="nofollow - Consulting Forester at https://www.facebook.com/deanforestryservices/" rel="nofollow - Dean Forestry Services Lives in Chunky, Mississippi we have 26 mutual friends on FB, Seems to be doing well We are all getting along with life and we do have that unbreakable bond.
------------- DLAshley
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Posted By: 610ET
Date Posted: 08 May 2018 at 1:31pm
Dan Ashley wrote:
Lance Dean: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Consulting-Forester/171861640125116" rel="nofollow - Consulting Forester at https://www.facebook.com/deanforestryservices/" rel="nofollow - Dean Forestry Services Lives in Chunky, Mississippi we have 26 mutual friends on FB, Seems to be doing well We are all getting along with life and we do have that unbreakable bond.
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Yes, you do.
Thanks for the update.
God Bless.
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