Rontini Submarine BBS Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > General > Submarine Related
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Bad welds holding back at least 3 new boats
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

"The opinions posted here do not represent those of any company, organization, or group and are those only of the author of the respective post." - From Rontini


Bad welds holding back at least 3 new boats

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
Rontini View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar
BBS Owner

Joined: 16 Dec 2015
Location: Sheridan, WY
Status: Offline
Points: 4611
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rontini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Bad welds holding back at least 3 new boats
    Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 7:44am
Secret weld: How shoddy parts disabled a $2.7 billion submarine

David Larder, Navy Times,  Mar 27

In early 2015 engineers on a brand-new submarine made a troubling find: A pipe joint near the innermost
chamber of its nuclear-powered engine showed signs of tampering. The defective elbow pipe, used to funnel steam from the reactor to the sub's propulsion turbines and generators, showed evidence of jury-rigged welding that could've been designed to make it appear satisfactory. But the part was already installed, the sub already commissioned.

These defective parts, each probably valued on the order of $10,000 or less, have kept the $2.7 billion attack submarine Minnesota languishing in an overhaul for two years, while engineers attempt to cut out and replace a difficult to reach part near the nuclear reactor. Meanwhile, Navy engineers are scouring aircraft carriers and other submarines for problems and criminal investigators are gathering evidence.
The unauthorized parts are impacting three new Virginia-class attack submarines, likely extending the post-shakedown overhauls for the other two subs and adding greatly to the final tab at a time these fearsome vessels are needed around the globe to defend carrier groups and strike America's adversaries. It's also trapped its crew in limbo as repair deadlines come and go, while other subs must take their place.

The Minnesota, the 10th Virginia-class attack boat, was delivered 11 months ahead of schedule. But it has been in the shipyards at Electric Boat in Groton, Connecticut for two years - more than twice as long as a normal post-shakedown availability. It still has months to go into summer of 2016. The plankowner crew has spent only a handful of days at sea since joining the fleet and experts say they're likely to forfeit their whole deployment cycle, forcing fleet bosses to make tough decisions about whether to extend deployments
or withhold forces from missions overseas. News of the lousy parts first emerged in August, a
month after the Minnesota was to have finished its  overhaul. Since then, a Justice Department-led
investigation is examining the quality control issues that led the shoddy part to be installed in the $2.7-billion sub. The same shoddy elbow joints were installed aboard attack subs North Dakota and John Warner, forcing the Navy to spend millions of dollars and many more months to repair them. If these pipes ruptured, they would leak steam and force the submarine to take emergency measures that would impair its combat effectiveness. What's not clear is how long the repairs of John Warner and North Dakota will take, how many other ships have these deficient fittings, and what the total cost will be
in terms of money and lost operational time. The Navy refuses to comment while the investigation grinds on.
Every increase in government authority is a decrease of the liberty of each citizen.
Back to Top
Dr. Stan View Drop Down
Rickover
Rickover
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Location: Sevierville, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 7275
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr. Stan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 11:54am
Originally posted by Rontini Rontini wrote:

If these pipes ruptured, they would leak steam and force the submarine to take emergency measures that would impair its combat effectiveness.


Now, that is putting it mildly!  If those elbows are where I am thinking they are in AMR2UL the failure of one of them would not be a mere nuisance it would be catastrophic.  I don't think the AMR2UL watch would be able to reach the after tunnel door in time resulting in it being open allowing steam to vent into AMR1 and hence to the MC.  Unless the Auxiliary man just happened to be standing in AMR1 close to the forward tunnel door, that is.  But, chances are he might not be close enough to react quickly and then it would be very, very bad.  Possibly as bad as the Thresher and Scorpion.  I spent many hours as the AMR2UL watch and this scenario was one of my greatest fears. 

If someone sabotaged those welds purposely I think Homeland Security should get involved because that is an act of war or, at the very least, terrorism.  But, if someone was just trying to get by with doing a sloppy job they still should be tracked down and brought to justice, as well.
 


It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues.~Abe Lincoln
SS-393, SSBN-610(B), SSBN-624(G), SSN-591
USSVI Life Member; Holland Club; Plank Owner, Smoky Mtn. Base
Back to Top
gerry View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: 16 Dec 2015
Status: Offline
Points: 322
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote gerry Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 12:05pm
If it is permitted to answer, are MS piping welds not radiographed?
MT2/SS
USS Simon Bolivar - SSBN 641 (B)
USS Henry M. Jackson - SSBN 730 (B)
USSVI - Wyoming Base
Back to Top
Sewer Pipe Snipe View Drop Down
BBS Supporter
BBS Supporter
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Location: Albany, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 4641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sewer Pipe Snipe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 2:27pm
They were documented 40 years ago. Radiograph and inspected during construction. Each step signed off. Part of the sub-safe program. Wonder if it is the same problem they had with the certified bolts they bought that had the numbers, but none of the testing. I believe one or two engines fell off of planes because of them. They were apparently counterfeited in China that time. Elbows come in formed and documented and are apparently accepted on the basis of documentation. There will be a bunch of folks involved in this, both QA inspectors, weld inspectors and welders. Probably the company bosses also.
Walt,
Had I done everything right throughout my life, the World wouldn't have noticed.
Back to Top
SaltiDawg View Drop Down
Rickover
Rickover
Avatar

Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Points: 2438
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SaltiDawg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 2:38pm
QA gun-decker Inspector at one Submarine Yard a couple of years got three years in prison and requirement to pay back a massive re-inspection expense.
Back to Top
Dr. Stan View Drop Down
Rickover
Rickover
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Location: Sevierville, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 7275
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr. Stan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 4:37pm
Originally posted by SaltiDawg SaltiDawg wrote:

QA gun-decker Inspector at one Submarine Yard a couple of years got three years in prison and requirement to pay back a massive re-inspection expense.


GOOD! ClapThumbs Up
It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues.~Abe Lincoln
SS-393, SSBN-610(B), SSBN-624(G), SSN-591
USSVI Life Member; Holland Club; Plank Owner, Smoky Mtn. Base
Back to Top
SaltiDawg View Drop Down
Rickover
Rickover
Avatar

Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Points: 2438
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SaltiDawg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 5:01pm
Back to Top
SaltiDawg View Drop Down
Rickover
Rickover
Avatar

Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Location: Rockville, MD
Status: Offline
Points: 2438
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote SaltiDawg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 28 Mar 2016 at 5:24pm
Originally posted by Sewer Pipe Snipe Sewer Pipe Snipe wrote:

They were documented 40 years ago. Radiograph and inspected during construction. Each step signed off. Part of the sub-safe program...


The question was:

Originally posted by gerry gerry wrote:

If it is permitted to answer, are MS piping welds not radiographed?


MS = Main Steam


Edited by SaltiDawg - 28 Mar 2016 at 5:26pm
Back to Top
Sewer Pipe Snipe View Drop Down
BBS Supporter
BBS Supporter
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Location: Albany, GA
Status: Offline
Points: 4641
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sewer Pipe Snipe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 5:29am
Seeing as how every weld on a trap manifold was radiographed, and any flange weld was radiographed, plus the 3" carbon steel coupon was radiographed when I had to requalify, I naturally thought I was referring to Main Steam Pipe. There was always a repair package requiring many inspections to be signed off on a field weld. I can even remember slump cones to monitor interpass on larger piping. I made the mistake of figuring it was a part of Sub Safe, as the same procedureal guides were used on seawater piping. Better known as weld procedures.
Walt,
Had I done everything right throughout my life, the World wouldn't have noticed.
Back to Top
Dr. Stan View Drop Down
Rickover
Rickover
Avatar

Joined: 04 Jan 2016
Location: Sevierville, TN
Status: Offline
Points: 7275
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dr. Stan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Mar 2016 at 1:13pm
Quote A pipe joint near the innermost chamber of its nuclear-powered engine showed signs of tampering. The defective elbow pipe, used to funnel steam from the reactor to the sub's propulsion turbines and generators, showed evidence of jury-rigged welding that could've been designed to make it appear satisfactory.


It appears that there may be something missing in the above quote.  In the interests of security, etc., we are talking at each other and trying to make points that probably can't be made without mentioning that which we should not mention.  I think . . .? Embarrassed

It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues.~Abe Lincoln
SS-393, SSBN-610(B), SSBN-624(G), SSN-591
USSVI Life Member; Holland Club; Plank Owner, Smoky Mtn. Base
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.04
Copyright ©2001-2015 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.