Rickover Question

In the 1960s Admiral Rickover interviewed ALL Officers that were being considered for the Nuclear Power Program - submarine or Surface.  Not just USNA applicants.

Any applicant that was accepted by the Admiral for Submarines faced 18 months of school - Submarine School, Nuclear Power School, and Prototype.  In that era, promotion from Ensign to LTJG was essentially automatic and was at the eighteen months of service point.  When reporting to a first boat, a USNA Grad would be recently minted LTJG.  ROTC Officers and other sources had a date of rank identical to the USNA Grad and I assume their 18 month requirement for promotion to LTJG would also preclude them being an Ensign when the arrived at their first boat.

The Officers going to a surface Nuke presumably would have been still an Ensign when reporting to their first ship.

In that era there was no way for an Academy Graduate to enter The Submarine Service except thru the KOG into the Nuclear Program.

I'm not sure what you mean by "Would a recent Annapolis grad feel a failure for being assigned to a non nuke boat?"  I think that ANYONE entering the Submarine Service in the 1960s would have seen the handwriting on the wall as far as a future in Diesel Boats.  It did not take a crystal ball for me, for example, in 1965 to recognize that it would be impossible for me to ascend to Command - the goal of any Submarine Line Officer - by serving in diesel boats.  The fact was obvious to all that there would be essentially zero diesel boats to command ten years later.

Not sure how to understand your, "We had a lot of Annapolis officers..." and "My one experience and interface with a younger junior academy officer left a lot to be desired."  I'm sure we all served with people we felt were great and also people we felt were jerks.... Officer and Enlisted.  In those days a majority of the Wardroom was non-academy on the boats I served on - both Nuke and diesel. I don't believe any of my boat COs were Academy Grads.

EDIT:  An Officer (USNA or other source) that failed the Rickover Interview would have to seek another career path - surface ships, aviation, engineering duty, etc.  Remember also that ALL potential Nuke Officers underwent the interview process.  That would include some Nuke enlisted men.  I do not know what their options were if they flunked the interview process.  I do know some did flunk!


Edited by SaltiDawg - 04 May 2016 at 6:44am

I believe I also served with a King's Point Grad.

I suspect the issue with the School Instructor was not with his degree... I served with liberal arts majors, at least one art major, and I suspect all manor of other fields of study.

My first Nuke CO was S.A. White.  He was the consummate Nuke - rising to be COMSUBLANT and later Four Stars.

"he pursued his Bachelor of Arts in International Relations, while simultaneously pursuing his Masters in Political Science.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steven_A._White



Edited by SaltiDawg - 04 May 2016 at 9:01am

Thanks for the detailed explanation - it clears up a lot of questions I had, and some I hadn't thought of until your explanation.

Can you tell me what the KOG was - I must have missed that?

My question regarding a recent Annapolis graduate feeling slighted for being assigned to a diesel was just based how it was always implied by people around me that nukes got whatever they wanted to the detriment of diesels.  Also I thought we had four academy officers on the Pickerel.  I  had assumed that our XO and both COs during my stint were academy - maybe that assumption was incorrect based on your response? 

I

Gil

Pickerel being a Diesel Boat likely had a mixture of non-nuke Academy, ROTC, LDO, etc.

An SSN  boat in those days would have had all nukes (Plus later a Supply Type.)  There was also the occasional LDO and WO.  I never happened to serve with one on a boat.  (Later as Repair Boss on Frank Cable I came to know and respect them BIG TIME.)

We had been talking about new academy grads going to Nukes only.  Presumably your CO/XO were from the 1950s and were therefore non-nukes.

KOG was an affectionate/sarcastic nickname for Adm Rickover.  KOG = Kindly Old Gentleman. (Certainly never said to his face!)

It is my sincere belief that at the Wardroom Level in those days, nobody looked down on Diesel Boats or looked down on Nukes.  The handwriting was on the wall - Diesels were going away, Nukes coming in.  We had lot's of SS/SSN banter at Happy Hours at the O Club at SUBASE NLON in those days.  But it was never mean-spirited - just teasing banter.


It has been only since I came to our forum that I have sensed a certain animosity on the part of DBFers toward Nukes... not sure if the animosity is against the men that manned them or whether it is more fundamentally resentment of the inevitable replacement of the diesels boats with Nuke boats.

SaltiDawg wrote: Gil, Also, it now occurs to me that a few Academy guys got stashed on Diesel Boats right out of the Academy.  This was not a career assignment, jut a place to "stash" them while waiting for Sub School, one Rhodes Scholar.... but this was quite rare. More often then not, these guys did not have enough time to earn their Dolphins. Also in the era you ask about, there were non-Academy Officers on the diesels that applied for the Nuke Program and went to see the KOG.  My first Mentor and good friend, Chuck Bean, had qualified on Corporal, applied to be a Nuke, and afterward was on his first Nuke with me.  Jerry

Edited by PaulR - 04 May 2016 at 1:23pm