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snorkle View Drop Down
Mess-Crank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snorkle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Silent
    Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 11:26am
tired of all the should be classified Bs on FB. needing some data to back me Up... can anyone supply a list of boats Lost because the Japanese Increased the depth setting of their DC's after the newspaper report?

-Edited by Gerry 1/22/2017 @11:50 MST 
-Warning sent to user


Edited by gerry - 22 Jan 2017 at 12:49pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JrKrup, Skimmer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 1:09pm
I was thinking about the same thing a couple days ago. Seems like some congressman, eager to make a headline, spilled the beans on the depth charge settings. That idiotic egotist's remarks was paid for in Submariners lives.
 
Loose lips sinks ships.


Edited by JrKrup, Skimmer - 22 Jan 2017 at 1:09pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsubs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 1:21pm
It cannot be demonstrated that any US submarines lost after the newspaper printing of classified information stemming from the Congressman's comments were lost due to the Japanese resetting their depth charge detonation points.  Post-war examination of Japanese records indicate they did not reset their depth charges. 

Realistically speaking the evidence how boats lost due to depth charge attacks by the Japanese were actually sunk is unknown.  Was sinking due to flooding due to rupturing of the hull by a charge detonating very close?  Was it due to piping inside the boat shearing and causing flooding that could not be stopped?  Did the attack cause the boat to lose depth control due to jammed planes or flooding of trim tanks due to ruptures?  We cannot know the answers to these questions because the answer lies with the boat on the bottom. 

Conspiracy theories will always abound that such and such a boat was lost because of this incident.  Even Admiral Lockwood, I believe, indicated that the incident caused the loss of up to ten boats.  But at present the evidence is that even though boats were lost after the Congressman blabbed and the news media irresponsibly reported what he said, these losses cannot be absolutely tied to the resetting of the Japanese depth charges. 


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snorkle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 2:36pm
Was there a surge in the sink Rate after the post.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsubs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 3:22pm
I do not think so.  It is easy enough to look up though.  Look at the sinkings before and after the publication date of the article and see. 

Remember to use only the sinkings due to depth charge attack, not aircraft, mines, operational or other causes.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Rontini Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 3:39pm
All of my studies indicate the same thing "Oldsubs" said.  It was never proved.  Not saying it was right of the stupid congressman to say that but whatever..
Every increase in government authority is a decrease of the liberty of each citizen.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote oldsubs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 4:38pm
Just as an exercise cause the Packer/Falcon game sucks and I'm waiting for the Steelers game I ran some numbers

Only taking sinkings possibly due to depth charging.
Before publication 6 possible sinkings in 2.5 years (all aprox) gives 2.4 sinkings per year.
After publication 12 possible sinkings in 3.5 years yields 3.4 sinkings per year. 

Now to normalize the statistic one must divide the sinkings per year by the number of submarine patrols (average) per year (look in the back of Blair's "Silent Victory").  The number of submarine patrol/year in the first 2.5 years would need to be 1.4 times the number of submarine patrols/year in the second 3.5 years to make the sink rate even.  I know for sure that this is not the case.  Thus there was no 'surge'.

Admiral Lockwood was rightly incensed but was a bit off in the numbers.  I cannot fault him at all for the statement.  It may well have served to prevent further breaches of security. 

As I said before, post-war examination finds no evidence that there was a resetting of the depth charge detonation points by the Japanese navy throughout the war.  I cannot quote you a source for this, but if you dig, you can find it.

Good question!!!  It is often useful to revisit what we think is right and to discover by doing so what is really right.

Gooooooo Steeeeeelers!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote snorkle Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jan 2017 at 11:24pm
Good Comments from all...  my Beef is folks that were around in the cold war era seem awful willing to discuss stuff about currant boats and Ops on Social media.  Some of itis BS But some of it isn't. "Need to know" is not the same as "want to know"...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Gil Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2017 at 9:17am
Thanks for the post!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crystal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Jan 2017 at 1:02am
Admiral Nimitz credited the asshole with up to 10 boats lost.  If you want to know where his grave is (for pissing purposes, let me know).

Edited by crystal - 31 Jan 2017 at 1:02am
SS-349, SSN-580, SSBN-640, CVA-59, SS-410, LPSS-315, CVA-61, Subase Pearl Harbor
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